tien (noun). “fairy, spirit” in Vietnamese

April 12, 2009

This one is for you my friend! ;) (Get ready to give me my Ham&Cheese crossiant)

To those who are interested, please refer to the following before you read on:

Looks like you’ll be having a memorable Easter break. Whilst you are out enjoying yourself, i stumbled upon a few interesting facts that has relevance to our on-going, yet to be settled (by which you unofficially claimed victory) debate about the almighty Hitler.

So…take a look and you can be the judge to whether my argument has any validity.

1. The use of gas to kill the mentally insane had been employed in Germany as early as 1939. At an October 1941 meeting where Eichmann was present, a decision was made to use poison gas to kill Jews. Auschwitz, a camp in Poland, was chosen to test this new method, and it was Eichmann who met with the Auschwitz commandant, Rudoph Hoess, to accomplish this. By the end of 1941, zyclon B gas, which had first been tested on Russian prisoners of war, was found to be a faster method than carbon monoxide poisoning (using the exhaust gas from diesel engines).

http://remember.org/eichmann/study2.htm

2. “Hitler’s furthest reaching economic achievement was his plan for the ‘People’s Car.’ Conceived as part of a grand strategy of bringing cheap motor vehicles within reach of ordinary people, the plan to build a car named after the Nazi slogan ‘Kraft durch Freude’ (Strength through Joy) was never consummated. The program nonetheless ended up by making an important contribution to the war effort. After the war, the clumsily named KdF-Auto attained world fame as the famous ‘beetle’ and the company producing it, Volkswagenwerk (VW), became West Germany’ best-known industrial concern. The ‘Peoples Car’ was designed from 1934 onwards by Ferdinand Porsche, the veteran vehicle engineer and founder of the Stuttgart car company which bears his name today. Born in northern Bohemia, Porsche made his name in the fledging Austrian vehicle industry and served as technical director and board member at Daimler between 1923 and 1929. He became a member not only of the Nazi Party but also of the SS. The car designer advised Hitler on tank building during the war, but results were not always satisfactory, straining Porsche’s relations with Armaments Minister Speer on more than one occasion. The first prototype of the ‘People’s Car’ was produced in 1935, and the VW company was established in 1938 to build the cars at a massive new factory near the small town of Fallersleben between Hanover and Magdenburg. Spelling out the objectives of the ‘People’s Car’ at the VW factory’s foundation ceremony at Fallersleben in May 1938, Hitler declared: ‘It’s for the great mass of the people that this car has been designed. Its purpose is to answer their needs in transport, and it is intended to give them joy.’ Unfinished when the war started, the plant was swiftly adapted to military production, building 51,000 army ‘bucket cars’ as well as 15,000 amphibious vehicles, tank parts, bomb cases and mines. From 1943 onwards Volkswagen also produced the V-1 flying bomb – the pilot-less aircraft which caused havoc in London towards the end of the war. The ‘People’s’ Volkswagen went into mass production only after the war when 20 million cars were eventually built, both at Wolfsburg and in VW works in Latin America.” From ‘The Germans: The Pivotal Nation’ by David Marsh.

http://members.tripod.com/~Propagander2/index-6.html

As we all know, most vehicles that are used in warfare consume diesel not petrol for reasons such as fuel mileage. From my second fact, it is ever so evident that hitler did produce cars and thus owned a car company. So with this in mind, would it not be logical that hitler used the carbon monoxide from his diesel cars to commit genocide (as stated in the first fact)?

i would also like to acknowledge my sources. Hours were spent researching to ensure that information is credible.

Thankyou for reading.
Tee

Now, Tien my friend, here are my rebuttals:

-What exactly is the point of this argument that put forward in Source 1?  I think it has been established that carbon monoxide(CO) was indeed used to commit genocide during the Second World War. Whether or not Hitler owned a car company for the purpoes of killing people is what is in dispute; NOT the fact that CO was used.

I would also question the reliability of Source 1.  It states that gas was used to kill “mentally insane” people since 1939- the start of WWII.  Although this is correct, it neglects OTHER groups of people who were also targetted by the Nazis, including Jews, homosexuals and gypsies.  Thus leading me to believe that Source 1 lacks reliability.
If anything, Source 1 would disprove your argument- it states that zylon B gas was used in place of CO because it proved to be a “faster method than CO poisoning”.  This means that Hitler need not own a car company to commit the genocide.

-Source 2 says NOTHING about the production of CO gas and the channelling of it into concentration camps, like those in Auschwitz.  Although it shows an affiliation between Hitler and a car designer, who merely “advised Hitler on tank building during the war but results were not always satisfactory”, it says nothing about Hitler, himself, owning a car company.  Furthermore, Hitler’s plan to build a car was “never consummated”– thus, EPIC fail on Hitler’s ambitions to build the car.

To end, you never really proved your point/argument- if anything, it was disproved.  Both sources that you quote don’t mention anything about Hitler owning a car company, albeit there was some affiliation.  However, I give you cookie/brownie points or Kudos for the hours you put into your research.

NOTHING EXPLICITLY (OR IMPLICITLY) STATES THAT HITLER OWNED A CAR COMPANY FOR THE PURPOSE OF CO PRODUCTION TO COMMIT GENOCIDE.
Do I get my Ham&Cheese crossiant now?

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7 Responses to “tien (noun). “fairy, spirit” in Vietnamese”

  1. Tee Says:

    Well the point of the 2 facts were to link them together. The fact that Hitler did produce vehicles for WWII shows that he did own a car company.

    I would like to quote “Whether or not Hitler owned a car company for the purpoes of killing people is what is in dispute”. You see, every country produces vehicles or cars (like hummers) to be used for warfare. Guns and what not can be attached and thus be used for killing. So if this is what we are disputing about, then i will give you the chance to wave your white flag.

    Carbon Monoxide was not only used to kill mentally insane people as it was used in gas chambers and gassing vans to kill Jews.

    If you went beyond what i quoted and actually visited the website i placed in my comment you would find that “Production was due to begin in September of 1938, but only 54 cars actually rolled off the assembly line before Hitler’s war necessitated production be converted to wartime needs”. Whilst i’ll agree that Hitler’s plan was “never consummated”, the car was in production. One more thing, that car designer (… Porsche *drools*) was a member of the Nazi Party.

    If i remember right, this whole debate was not solely about Hitler owning a car company for killing purposes, it was more about the carbon dioxide. If my memory serves me well, then the debate was over the fact that carbon dioxide could be taken from engines or cars to be used for killing purposes. I do distinctly remember you telling me why would Hitler take carbon monoxide out of cars when there “could have” been better ways to mass produce it.

  2. TIMSUN Says:

    so who besides maggie or tien read all that

  3. Alysse :) Says:

    i got up to a bit past tien’s first link, then maggie’s rebuttal :D

  4. Hieu Says:

    I scrolled right down with intentions of posting what Tim wrote, but obviously he beat me to it. Kudos.

  5. Tee Says:

    I am going to feel dispirited,disheartened and saddened as i say these words as i put this debate to an abeyance.

    On the 12th of April 2009 at a time of 3:10am, I, Tien Tran (*waving his white undies on a chopstick*) proclaim Margaret Yie Quach the victor of the debate on the ground that I could not prove that Hitler obtained carbon monoxide from his Volkswagon company to commit genocide. From this moment, i will permit bragging rights to Margaret just in the event she wants to savor this moment.

  6. Pho Says:

    Lol nice use of your source evaluation maggie xD

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